Training heros? - Guild Wars Forums

ajc2123 · Jan 12, 2008, 05:42 PM // 17:42

Ok, i know you can tell em what to do, or just let em do w/e with the build you give them, but if you tell them how to run their builds over and over again, and then just let them roam free, do they seem to adapt to it? I ask becasue a friend said she does this with all of her heros, and ive tried it with vekk so he casts glyph of sac before M shower, and now he seems to get the idea what skill that glyph is for even though he used to use it on fireball or an enchant. Although i could just be extremly lucky. So, whats the deal?

Alex Morningstar · Jan 12, 2008, 05:46 PM // 17:46

I'm pretty sure Heros have their own programmed AI and will use skills accordingl in the order of slots from left to right. Some they will use more than others regardless, some they will use never.

The trick is to find skills that heros can use well without screwing them up, and then putting them in a satisfactory order so that they will cast it when they should/when you want.

Here are two links to areas with hero builds if you need some inspiration.
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/f...play.php?f=243
http://www.pvxwiki.com/wiki/Category...ng_hero_builds

ajc2123 · Jan 12, 2008, 05:48 PM // 17:48

I know about things like that, like they wont use deathcharge unless its to heal or something, but have you ever tried training them to use certain skills in certain ways (exlcuding disabled skills such as maintaned enchants)

Earth · Jan 12, 2008, 06:38 PM // 18:38

No, they won't learn. I've tried.

Lord Twitchiopolis · Jan 12, 2008, 08:14 PM // 20:14

Sad but true. it's part of what makes the game the game though. Heroes are great, but they're no substitute for a good human.

MagmaRed · Jan 12, 2008, 08:45 PM // 20:45

If it worked, Master of Whispers would be Arcane Echoing Spiteful Spirit instead of Parasitic Bond. The AI won't change, just because you use certain skills manually for the hero.

Lady S Shiva · Jan 12, 2008, 09:16 PM // 21:16

my nerc hero never bip or br me, T_T

ajc2123 · Jan 12, 2008, 09:41 PM // 21:41

Lol never give a hero order of the vampire, they kill themselves with it so badly.

Biostem · Jan 12, 2008, 09:48 PM // 21:48

For what they are, (namely, a customizable alternative to henchmen), heroes are very good. Since they can't learn, it is up to us, the players, to find the best solutions that work w/ their limited capabilities.

Basically, heroes can't learn to work the way we want them to, so we must learn to work the way they are able to...

Also, heroes seem much more adept at using timing-sensitive skills like interrupts or highly micromanaged things like casting death nova or jagged bones on minions that are about to expire. The ability to flag them here or there is also a huge benefit.

Valeria · Jan 13, 2008, 05:48 PM // 17:48

Quote:

my nerc hero never bip or br me, T_T

I think it depends on the primary class as well. A monk might be more likely to get energy buffs. At least my heroes like me

I just wish heroes would use [skill]"incoming!"[/skill] 2-3 seconds later than they do right now. (always right when the first enemys get into range, far before the first attack)

Miska Bow · Jan 14, 2008, 10:56 PM // 22:56

I had Zhed set up with [skill=text]Rodgort's Invocation[/skill]. Poor Saddle face kept running to the mobs to cast, then back to the back line when he realize where he was.

Fire Nuker Heroes are real party maker. When set up with [skill=text]Meteor Shower[/skill] they will mostly use it the celebrate the death of the last foe of a group.

I aslo had Jora (Love of my life, Godess of my dream) set up with the ''Obsidian tank'' build.

[skill]obsidian flesh[/skill][skill]stoneflesh aura[/skill][skill]glyph of concentration[/skill][skill]ward against foes[/skill][skill]endure pain[/skill][skill]signet of stamina[/skill][skill]armor of earth[/skill][skill]dolyak signet[/skill]

It was really nice to see her slowly walk (no one else could walk that way

) to the foes while i was lying dead with the rest of the H/H.

Knowing this I advise you to act accordingly; use simple build for their simple mind. Heroes are great if you play the ''Brain'' part.

Quaker · Jan 14, 2008, 11:54 PM // 23:54

Well, you may not be able to train them to use spells, but it does seem to me that they may learn some things.
It's like this. I go out with an H&H group to do some area. At first, I'll ping (target) the enemies in the group I want to kill first - for example, the enemy healer(s). After a while it seems as though the heroes will go after the healers first without being told. Of, course, it may be just coincidence or wishful thinking - and they forget it when you log off anyway.

BigDave · Jan 15, 2008, 01:36 AM // 01:36

I've never found heroes to learn their builds the more they play them. One thing i have found though is that the more i play with heroes in the group the better I get at managing them. I'll call targets more carefully, i'll flag them where i want them, i'll move them out of AoE myself rather than letting them do it, i'll tell them when to use certain skills, i'll swap skills out if they don't use them effectively, etc, etc.

A few things to note about heroes are they are very good at 3 things.

1) Interrupting (godly, although they don't always interrupt what you want them to).
2) Micro-managing skills like death nova, jagged bones, etc (already mentioned above).
3) Spamming skills (heroes love spamming skills on recharge).

Make their builds so that they can do one or more of those 3 things and you're on to a winner. No arcane echo (unless you control it), as few conditional skills as you can (like zealous bendiction, etc), no expensive spammable skills without strong e-management (like rodgorts without dual attunements). Disable any key skills on their bar and control them yourself. Those are just my rules but they work very well for me.

Like i said, i find that i learn to control them better rather than them learning.

Crom The Pale · Jan 15, 2008, 01:49 AM // 01:49

I believe that originally Heros were meant to learn from you, but things changed between the preview event and release of Nightfall.

Durring the preview event I noticed that if a Hero aquired any DP they began to shake thier heads in the control bars and would refuse to attack when I called a target unless I went in first and attacked.

It is possible that some small part of this remains, so that if you constantly force your hero to use 2 skills concecutively they may actually learn to do so. Nothing more complicated than 2 skills seams to work though.

Jan 12, 2008, 05:42 PM // 17:42	#1
ajc2123 Desert Nomad Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: North of the wall Profession: Me/	Training heros? Ok, i know you can tell em what to do, or just let em do w/e with the build you give them, but if you tell them how to run their builds over and over again, and then just let them roam free, do they seem to adapt to it? I ask becasue a friend said she does this with all of her heros, and ive tried it with vekk so he casts glyph of sac before M shower, and now he seems to get the idea what skill that glyph is for even though he used to use it on fireball or an enchant. Although i could just be extremly lucky. So, whats the deal?

Jan 12, 2008, 05:46 PM // 17:46	#2
Alex Morningstar Krytan Explorer Join Date: May 2006 Guild: Team Asshat [Hat] leader - [GR] Alliance Profession: Mo/	I'm pretty sure Heros have their own programmed AI and will use skills accordingl in the order of slots from left to right. Some they will use more than others regardless, some they will use never. The trick is to find skills that heros can use well without screwing them up, and then putting them in a satisfactory order so that they will cast it when they should/when you want. Here are two links to areas with hero builds if you need some inspiration. http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/f...play.php?f=243 http://www.pvxwiki.com/wiki/Category...ng_hero_builds

Jan 12, 2008, 05:48 PM // 17:48	#3
ajc2123 Desert Nomad Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: North of the wall Profession: Me/	I know about things like that, like they wont use deathcharge unless its to heal or something, but have you ever tried training them to use certain skills in certain ways (exlcuding disabled skills such as maintaned enchants)

Jan 12, 2008, 06:38 PM // 18:38	#4
Earth Always Outnumbered Join Date: Jul 2006	No, they won't learn. I've tried.

Jan 12, 2008, 08:14 PM // 20:14	#5
Lord Twitchiopolis Ascalonian Squire Join Date: Jan 2008 Guild: MEEP Profession: Rt/	Sad but true. it's part of what makes the game the game though. Heroes are great, but they're no substitute for a good human.

Jan 12, 2008, 08:45 PM // 20:45	#6
MagmaRed Furnace Stoker Join Date: Mar 2007 Guild: Our Crabs Know True [LOVE] Profession: R/	If it worked, Master of Whispers would be Arcane Echoing Spiteful Spirit instead of Parasitic Bond. The AI won't change, just because you use certain skills manually for the hero.

Jan 12, 2008, 09:16 PM // 21:16	#7
Lady S Shiva Desert Nomad Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: CA Guild: LOD??? Profession: W/Mo	my nerc hero never bip or br me, T_T

Jan 12, 2008, 09:41 PM // 21:41	#8
ajc2123 Desert Nomad Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: North of the wall Profession: Me/	Lol never give a hero order of the vampire, they kill themselves with it so badly.

Jan 12, 2008, 09:48 PM // 21:48	#9
Biostem Jungle Guide Join Date: Oct 2007	For what they are, (namely, a customizable alternative to henchmen), heroes are very good. Since they can't learn, it is up to us, the players, to find the best solutions that work w/ their limited capabilities. Basically, heroes can't learn to work the way we want them to, so we must learn to work the way they are able to... Also, heroes seem much more adept at using timing-sensitive skills like interrupts or highly micromanaged things like casting death nova or jagged bones on minions that are about to expire. The ability to flag them here or there is also a huge benefit.

Jan 14, 2008, 10:56 PM // 22:56	#11
Miska Bow Krytan Explorer Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: somewhere, Grinding some l33t titles Guild: Order of the Divine WoodChuck Profession: R/	I had Zhed set up with [skill=text]Rodgort's Invocation[/skill]. Poor Saddle face kept running to the mobs to cast, then back to the back line when he realize where he was. Fire Nuker Heroes are real party maker. When set up with [skill=text]Meteor Shower[/skill] they will mostly use it the celebrate the death of the last foe of a group. I aslo had Jora (Love of my life, Godess of my dream) set up with the ''Obsidian tank'' build. [skill]obsidian flesh[/skill][skill]stoneflesh aura[/skill][skill]glyph of concentration[/skill][skill]ward against foes[/skill][skill]endure pain[/skill][skill]signet of stamina[/skill][skill]armor of earth[/skill][skill]dolyak signet[/skill] It was really nice to see her slowly walk (no one else could walk that way ) to the foes while i was lying dead with the rest of the H/H. Knowing this I advise you to act accordingly; use simple build for their simple mind. Heroes are great if you play the ''Brain'' part.

Jan 14, 2008, 11:54 PM // 23:54	#12
Quaker Hell's Protector Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Canada Guild: Brothers Disgruntled	Well, you may not be able to train them to use spells, but it does seem to me that they may learn some things. It's like this. I go out with an H&H group to do some area. At first, I'll ping (target) the enemies in the group I want to kill first - for example, the enemy healer(s). After a while it seems as though the heroes will go after the healers first without being told. Of, course, it may be just coincidence or wishful thinking - and they forget it when you log off anyway.

Jan 15, 2008, 01:36 AM // 01:36	#13
BigDave Krytan Explorer Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Manchester, UK Guild: The Sapphire Rose [TSR]	I've never found heroes to learn their builds the more they play them. One thing i have found though is that the more i play with heroes in the group the better I get at managing them. I'll call targets more carefully, i'll flag them where i want them, i'll move them out of AoE myself rather than letting them do it, i'll tell them when to use certain skills, i'll swap skills out if they don't use them effectively, etc, etc. A few things to note about heroes are they are very good at 3 things. 1) Interrupting (godly, although they don't always interrupt what you want them to). 2) Micro-managing skills like death nova, jagged bones, etc (already mentioned above). 3) Spamming skills (heroes love spamming skills on recharge). Make their builds so that they can do one or more of those 3 things and you're on to a winner. No arcane echo (unless you control it), as few conditional skills as you can (like zealous bendiction, etc), no expensive spammable skills without strong e-management (like rodgorts without dual attunements). Disable any key skills on their bar and control them yourself. Those are just my rules but they work very well for me. Like i said, i find that i learn to control them better rather than them learning.

Jan 15, 2008, 01:49 AM // 01:49	#14
Crom The Pale Furnace Stoker Join Date: Nov 2006 Guild: Ageis Ascending Profession: W/	I believe that originally Heros were meant to learn from you, but things changed between the preview event and release of Nightfall. Durring the preview event I noticed that if a Hero aquired any DP they began to shake thier heads in the control bars and would refuse to attack when I called a target unless I went in first and attacked. It is possible that some small part of this remains, so that if you constantly force your hero to use 2 skills concecutively they may actually learn to do so. Nothing more complicated than 2 skills seams to work though.